Frarochvia noticed an important detail in one of yesterday’s pictures – an ASL book. Last night I started taking ASL classes through Minneapolis Community Education.
“Hey, big kitty, what does this mean in Kitty Sign Language (KSL)?” -Mayhem
“It means you’re smooshing my ear and cruising for a bruising, May!” -Chaos
ASL is one of those unexpected side effects of blogging. (Not making the connection yet? Read on!) Like many of you, I’ve developed a number of friendships through blogging and have met bloggers from the Twin Cities, from across the US, and from overseas. Spoken English has been the common language; however, it isn’t the common language of some deaf bloggers I very much hope to meet and spend time with: my dear friend Fraro, local Limedragon, and Tiphanie. I don’t want our meetings to consist of us typing frantically and staring at our computer screens – we already have that down without leaving our own living rooms.
So I’ve been inspired to go forth and learn ASL. And I find myself thinking about blogging and the direct benefits (connection! community! friendship! laughter and tears!) and some indirect benefits, such as this ASL class. What have the expected and unexpected benefits of blogging been for you? The direct and indirect benefits? I’m curious. This seems a great topic for discussion.
Speaking of discussion, recently, Deb aka Chappysmom wrote about a post she’d read on getting more blog comments by replying to comments via comments instead of via email. She was curious what we thought about it; a very interesting discussion subsequently developed in her comments as the author of the aforementioned post and others participated.
Now, I personally really like replying to comments via email because some great conversations and friendships get started that way. You know who you are! 😉 But since I’m curious to see what sort of discussion develops in the comments if I reply there and maybe some of you return a time or two to contribute additional thoughts to the discussion, I’m not going to reply to the emailed comments for this post. Nor am I going to reply to every single comment with a comment of my own. I’m just going to participate in the discussion, and I hope you will, too!
“Gee, I guess he wasn’t kidding about that one… Hey, what do you think this is the sign for in KSL? Maybe ‘Help?!!’ Or ‘Unpaw me, you wretch?!!'” -Mayhem
(Nope, they aren’t dusty or dirty – they are simply covered in catnip…)
Thanks for the linkout, Chris.
I agree – the discussion turned out to be a real eye-opener. Knitters reading feeds? Getting comments most probloggers would die for? Who knew!
But managing email comments and responding to each person one by one? I don’t believe I get the number of comments Deb mentioned some knitters do, and if I had to answer each one personally via email… I’d go insane.
Also, I think that email commenting cuts readers out of the discussion. We did decide that blogging is about friendship, many times – so why hold intimate private conversations when you can host a gathering of friends?
I’ll be curious to see how others from your blog feel – the Knitting Underground definitely has different perspectives than the people in my niche!
And I just realized there is one HUGE problem with your experiment…
You don’t have the Subscribe to Comments Plugin installed.
How am I supposed to know when comments occur on your blog so I can come back and participate in the discussion?
(Install the plugin. Really.)
They look blissed out 🙂
An interesting experiment.
I notice that Chaos is still sprawled on his new scratchy pad/bed/toy.
I’m no fan of replies in the comments. I don’t come back to read them. Once a post is read and commented on I done;-)
I read all the way to the end of Deb’s 50-odd comment trail and it was exhausting. No way could I follow up with extensive conversations of that nature on a regular basis.
I have been both a pro-blogger and a craft blogger for some time now. I see the advantages in a professional setting of encouraging convo via comments. As for craft blogs, I look to comments for trends (either questions or responses) and may respond or wrap up in a subsequent post.
Mostly, I’m with you. Continue conversations privately via email or IM. Like you, I’ve met knitters from around the world that way. Even hosted the lovely Fraro in my home.
As was oft repeated in Deb’s comments, the knit blogging community is a different kind of animal than pro blogging. Personally, I love it!
That’s how my (deaf, asl signing!) sister interacts with the readers on her blog. It actually is quite interesting to see the entirety of the conversations she has with them. And I’ve seen it on other non-knit blogs as well. But that doesn’t seem to be what knit-bloggers do. And I kind of wonder why that is. Hmm…
I have to say, the experience at Deb’s blog was interesting. At first I thought it almost sacrilegious that a blogger would intentionally not comment on their own blog. It’s like being raised your whole life to do one thing a particular way; you automatically think that’s how the whole world does it.
While not commenting is still a difficult concept for me to wrap my head around (and the thought of responding to each individual makes my head want to explode), I do understand why the knitting community does things the way they do.
Hey, I tried my best to gain a few converts and I have to admit, there were a few who stepped out there and tried it. I even tried the email route. It was a fun topic to explore. Sort of like going to another country and learning the culture. Thanks, Deb, and the rest of Knitopia for making me feel welcome, I’ll have to visit again sometime!
Good point, James! The “Subscribe to Comments” plugin has now been installed – you can make use of it by clicking the box below this comment entry area.
Re: “Getting comments most probloggers would die for” – have you ever poked around in the bloglines top 100/top 1000? You’ll find Yarn Harlot, Wendy Knits, and other knitting blogs well represented – but strangely, to me at least, no other crafts. Anyway, I think that the Yarn Harlot is definitely a problogger. The power she has (which she fortunately chooses to use for good) is amazing – did you hear about the Knitting Olympics? Or about her raising nearly $435,000 for Doctors Without Borders???
Email commenting can cut readers out of the discussion, but on the other hand – friendships tend to be fostered on an individual level, rather than at a group level. Or is that just the INTJ in me talking?! 😉 That said, on the days when I’ve received over 50 comments, I did start to feel overwhelmed by the email! There’s definitely a commenting email threshold.
Margene – I know exactly what you mean! If I were to start tracking all the comments I leave in order to see if I’d received a response, I sure couldn’t read anywhere near the number of blogs I read.
Karen B – *works through Fraro visit jealousy* 😉 I know what you mean! As a post author, I’m pretty sure there isn’t any way I could participate in extensive conversations like that with any regularity. This commenting in the comments thing definitely takes more time than responding via email!
Is Mayhem flippin’ Chaos off?!! Heh heh…
Sometimes the comment volume can be overwhelming, and I try to respond to all of them. If an interesting comment or topic comes up, I try to put it into my next post. It’s interesting to see what comes up as a result.
Of course – the one on one’s are my personal favourites, after all, it’s how we became friends!
I thought there was lint on my monitor! That is a serious addiction there, kitties.
Jen – Does your sister interact with her blog readers in email at all? Or just in comments? I know, it’s a widely spread knitblog community norm to reply to comments via email rather than comments – if you come up with any ideas about why we do that, I’d love to hear them!
Harrison – My head only starts to explode when I get over 50 comments to a post! Below that, it seems very manageable – but we aren’t talking epic emails to each commentor, either. If you really want your mind blown, you should look out for a Yarn Harlot book event in your area. The last one in the Twin Cities had hundreds upon hundreds of attendees. We filled a college auditorium. Not many book signings have that sort of draw!
@Chris: Just between you and me? My commenting stamina isn’t on par with some people I know *glances over at James*. After a while I find it hard to keep up too.
Hm…knitters in Las Vegas? Can’t say I’ve heard of an event out here yet, then again, I’ve never watched for it.
Very cool that you’re learning sign language. I taught it for several years in the 80’s until wifedom, motherhood, etc. got in the way. It’s a skill I’ve never lost. My first roommate was deaf, my second roommate was a student in one of my classes and my third roommate was an interpreter and the only hearing person in her family.
I usually reply personally rather than via the comments unless I get a comment where I don’t have the person’s name or email.
I learned ASL at one of my jobs, where it was a requirement. I loved learning it, and like any new language, was incredibly slow when using it to communicate with others. But it was a wonderful experience – I hope you enjoy it as much!
Have fun learning ASL! Isn’t the knitting community awesome? Oddly enough, Limedragon and I know each other from university, where I took notes for her for a couple classes. Small world!
And Jodi and I kept *almost* meeting until one Friday night in the LYS. I was actually in line behind her and heard her mention her last name. Very small world.
Re: Fraro visit, I’m sure that once she meets you, she will completely forget about me. 🙂
That is a cool connection. I love hearing about what prompts people to take on new skills, and I think it is phenomenal that you are learning a whole new language because of it.
ps: I gave you an award, and then was too lazy to tell you until today (scroll down)
http://notanartist.blogspot.com/2008/01/desperately-seeking-turquoise.html
I learned some sign language in elementary school. (And, in fact, can still remember most of the signs to Debbie Boone’s “You Light Up My Life,” which we did “in concert.”) There was even a period of time in junior-high when I wanted to teach deaf people for a living, but that kind of fizzled. I never did get the hang of actual ASL–I’m such a grammar-freak that I WANTED to sign all the words in a normal English sentence, trying to figure out the short-hand (no pun intended) was too hard for my brain to compute. (“But, but, that’s not RIGHT!”)
And, the commenting comments? I LOVE the discussion that came up from that, but don’t see how I could reproduce it on every post. Too many knit-blog posts are casual and the conversations that would come up would likely be, well, kind of boring. But the posts where there’s a real, solid topic that really begs to be discussed? Opinions to be bantered back and forth? Tips? Tricks? Absolutely worth doing in the comments–at which time the subscribe-to-comments feature is vital.
Who knew that we knit-bloggers were such a unique subset?? Well, okay, WE did….
Harrison – James seems to be some sort of supercommentor, with special skills. 😉
Sandy, Bridget, Jodi – Thanks! I’m looking forward to it; it’s definitely engaging a different part of my brain. I’m sure I’ll be incredibly slow, too.
Jodi – You have all sorts of connections back here, don’t you!? Plus that connection to Karen – toss into the mix that I’ve met Limedragon (albeit briefly and with aid of an interpreter) and I wonder what the degree of separation is?
Karen B – I don’t know about that! 😉
Not an Artist – Aw, thank you!
@Chris: Oh god, don’t tell him that! His ego is too big already!
I want to learn ASL too…I actually know a smattering of Native American sign language (some similarities, but not many). Very little need in ASL for references to “white man” or “buffalo run”….I’m considering taking a part-time job (nights) at the Deaf Relay because along with all else they give you very comprehensive training in Sign (and tips for living in the deaf community, which I find interesting!) I did work there briefly before (my eyes got to bad I couldn’t see the monitor,but “all better now”). As far as comments – I do both, but it’s true, I dont’ often go back and reread comments in the blogs I read. (Oh, but those CATS! I do so love those CATS!)
Aaaaaa! Don’t call ASL’s grammar a shorthand! (INSERT GIANT HONKING PET PEEVE HERE!) ASL has completely different grammar. But it is not shorthand!!!!!
I think K is insane. There is room in my heart for both K and Chris 😉
Just as there’s room for both maymaymay and favorite bad kitty in my heart!
A lot of deaf blogs have this conversational setup in the comments. I, obviously, don’t subscribe to this model. On the other hand, I don’t discuss controversial topics much.
Thank you for being a dear friend, Chris!
My good friends teach their kids to sign as they teach them words. They don’t have any deaf relatives, just nice folk.
Re: comments — I hardly ever go back to blogs to check on comment discussions in the comment section. The only blog I do go back and check the comments on is Van’s. I really do prefer it if bloggers who want to say something to me or respond to something I’ve said in a comment on their blog email me — I try to comment on as many blogs in a day as I can and honestly, I’d never remember to go back to each blog to check for return comments. You know?
Unexpected benefits from blogging? The sense that I’m not alone…in motherhood, parenthood, in being the child of an alcoholic parent, in losing my mom. Not to mention all the things people have sent me — someone knit me this kickass, funky, awesome electric scarf that I wear every day…
(pretty please reply to me via email? with sugar on top?)
Deb – Oh, look out! You triggered Fraro/bellamoden’s pet peeve there… Just as German and other foreign languages have different grammar than English, so does ASL. I wonder if it’s harder to remember that about ASL because the manual alphabet is the English alphabet?
Dale-Harriet – What is the Deaf Relay? Intriguing…
Fraro/bellamoden – I wonder if the conversational commenting difference has more to do with being part of the knitblogging community or not? I know that Van and Tink (not part of the knitblog or deafblog communities) reply to comments in the comments.
Van – I think baby sign is pretty cool. It’s amazing how much less frustrated an 18-month old is when s/he can express some basic comments, such as “more” or “milk.”
Holy…. 26 comments in like, one HOUR? WTF?!
Alright, yes. You guys have me convinced. Following 100 blogs that each have comment threads this long, with this many people and with this much community spirit and friendship would definitely make my head explode. Quickly. Even Harry couldn’t save me.
As far as being special… hehehe. No comment there.
But one thing that is cool to note is the directions this conversation is taking. Sign language? Way cool. Cats? Meh, I’ll pass. Too many cat convos in the world. Knitting? Okay, I like that.
And a problogger knitter? Very cool. To me, problogging is a job and not an action. Job as in writer, plumber, teacher… I guess knitter could be a job too, no?
Chris- I consider meeting people I would otherwise never have otherwise, a perk of blogging.
I see the nip debauchery continues…some cats across the pond are not thanking you.
I’m intrigued by the idea of a conversation in the comments. It might be hard though because there are so many people involved in the conversation. Even in real life, it’s hard to talk casually to more than 3 or 4 people.
@James: Too many cat convos? No, never enough cat convos. If you haven’t noticed, I’ve refrained from talking about mine. Don’t tempt me, I’ll do it just to annoy you 🙂
Let me know how the class goes. I might have to sign up for the next round. I’ve always wanted to learn ASL, but just haven’t gotten around to it much (and I’m terrible at finger spelling, unless I go at a snail’s pace.)
I think Knit & Tonic Wendy replies to her comments. I’m more of a comment & run kind of person, I guess.
Baby signs are ok. The fact baby signs are more popular than teaching deaf children ASL, not ok.
I have many pet peeves. I’m sorry.
Deaf relay is where you can call through IM or ancient TTY or video or web interface to call hearing people. AMAZING INVENTION. Or something.
Some days? Definitely or something. But overall, it’s a nice thing.
BTW, fingerspelling is not an important subset of ASL. It should not be used as a crutch. Do you spell out each word you’re talking about individually in meatspace? No? Wow. Don’t do that to me then, please.
*still has PTSD about that one time she was stuck in a first class dining car on the train with a woman who insisted on spending what seemed like 30 years f i n g e r s p e l l i n g a n e n t i r e c o n v e r s a t i o n a n d t h i s w a s t e n y e a r s a g o a n d i t i s s t i l l h o r r i b l e t o t h i n k a b o u t.*
Don’t do it. I thank you.
MamaT – I know – if I had to go back to every blog I read to look for responses, I wouldn’t be able to read very many blogs… The sense of not being alone is wonderful, isn’t it? That was so sustaining during my six weeks at home on medical leave. Aw, I’m so glad that you still like that scarf! 😀
James – Ha! 😉 I’m subscribed to about 150 blogs that I also comment on. To sustain comment conversation, I’d have to seriously cut back on the subscriptions – and I have a hard, hard time doing that. Yes, indeed, I’d have to say that for the the Yarn Harlot, knitting is a job (although so is writing, of which blogging is a part). Heck, she posted about toilet seat problems and got 350 comments…
Lorraine – You and me both! Definitely a perk.
Jennifer – Do you have any idea what your Myers-Briggs/Kiersey type is? I would guess you’re somewhere in the I spectrum – so am I!
Christy – I like it – “comment & run” is a perfect description.
Fraro/bellamoden – Really? Baby sign is more popular than teaching deaf kids ASL? 🙁 For shame… Hee hee – ok, I knew what relay was; for some reason I was thinking of a relay race from Dale-Harriet’s comment! *rolls eyes at self*
Oh, I know that ASL has its own, unique grammar. It’s just that to a standard-English speaker like myself, it SEEMS like short-hand. It’s one of the reasons I was never able to progress from basic signing to ASL . . . my “ear” (eye?) just couldn’t adapt to sentences that didn’t match the sentence structure my brain expected.
Interestingly, though, when I learned French in school, the different grammar wasn’t as hard for me to comprehend. I wonder if that was because I thought of sign language as something akin to visual English–like written words are kin to spoken ones, but in the same language. Whereas French was a completely different language, so a different grammatical structure made sense to my head?
I’m exhausted and can’t read anymore.
Fraro/belladmoden – Good point. My ASL teacher noted that the head of his Gallaudet ASL Dept was taught the Rochester method as a child and was scary fast (ie, unintelligible) with the fingerspelling. But it seems a beastly way to try to communicate. I’m likening it to spelling out a word I don’t know how to pronounce – once I learn the pronunciation, I don’t need to keep spelling the word.
Deb (Chappysmom) – I think that’s it. Our teacher also noted that ASL is the 5th hardest language to learn…
Deb (Wound2Tight) – Go take a nap! 😉
ASL is amazing to teach to toddlers. Not only do they pick it up quickly, but it helps eliminate tantrums resulting from frustrated children because they are able to communicate their needs.
That’s a serious kitty ganga habit going on there!
Not only do I not have time to go back and see if YOU replied in the comments, I don’t have time to come back at ALL to read the comments.
Your personal replies are directly what lead me to continue visiting your blog ALONE daily (whether I commented or not) during any knitting hiatus I’ve had during the time I’ve “known” you.
Just my 2 cents. 🙂
How great that you’re learning ASL!
I think May is just saying “Say, wow, man, this is really good shit!”.
You know, if you look at the photo sideways, she looks like she has a beehive hairdo. Or maybe some kinda wild Don King thing.
Heide – I have noticed that about baby sign! Even having just a few signs makes a big difference.
Lisa – Aw, I am honored! And fear not – I’m not switching to replying in the comments. I’m enjoying this little interlude today, but boy does it take more time!
Cheryl – Did you turn your monitor to determine that? What are you on this morning? 😉
This is an interesting conversation. I have a new blog (started in September) and I was so thrilled when I got my first comment. I immediately tried to email back, only to discover that the comments (which come to my email) come from a no-reply address. So, in order to reply by email, I’d have to track down the commenter’s email. (I realize not a great hardship, but because of my current email setup not as easy as it might be, either.) I asked, in an early post, how others handled comments and the majority of people (remember, I said I don’t get many comments, so we’re talking one or two people!) said they thought responding in my comment section was the right way to go. So that’s what I’ve been doing.
Plus, a lot of times, what I reply to a comment adds to, or enriches (I hope), the original post.
At the same time, I am always thrilled to get email from a blogger at whose blog I’ve commented. So I am torn.
I guess I don’t regularly visit that many blogs. I have my list of favorites that I visit religiously. A bunch of others that I visit oftem. But (no offense to anyone) after a while they all tend to blur. I enjoy them all but it’s the stronger personalities, the better writers, the people with some sort of “hook” that stick in my mind. I love your contest links, Chris, and the cats. I love Cyn’s (Half-Assed Knitting) humor (and patterns). I love Jane’s (Yarnstorm) color sensibility and photographs. And so on. And I know there are undoubtedly other gems out there. The joy is stumbling upon them.
ASL class? How cool! Working for an Independent Living Center, having an interpreter is important at our events, and I’ve always thought it would be fun to learn. Heide, I’m intrigued with the possibility of teaching a 4 year old with PDD the skill – would that be a way to help him focus, do you think?
Blogging got me involved in the lives of many knitters with visual impairments, as I have one myself. That’s been a fascinating extension of the original purpose. Not to mention “meeting” people all over the world who knit. And have CATS.
😉
But I wouldn’t be able to keep up with my bloglines if I had to track comments and convos. Nope not me! (but I’m doing it THIS time for THIS thread!)
(((hugs)))
LOL at the catnip faces. Good luck with your ASL classes.
C&M,
You mean your Mom lets you roll in nip?? Wow, lucky you.
R&R
I accidentally did the “Subscribe to Comments” thing on a blog. There weren’t that many comments but it still drove me crazy for some reason. I can’t imagine following all of my blogs that way.
It’s great that you are taking a sign language course. I almost took it a few years ago. There was a deaf person that I interacted with a couple of times a year. It wasn’t that often but I hated being reduced to passing notes and weird hand signals. 🙂 But then I left that job and forgot about it.
The best unexpected benefit of blogging is finding others have the same bad days, problems, eccentricities, etc. I don’t as weird. 😉
*waves* Hi Jodi!
Chris – glad the class wasn’t canceled! I never could keep up with bloggers who respond to comments with more comments. I figure that if it’s something useful for everyone to read, it can be added/updated in that post or put into a follow-up post.
Like SarahR I’m new to blogging and also discovered that I don’t have emails for replying. But like Margene I don’t usually follow up to see if a blogger responds to my comment, so I myself don’t respond in the comments to commenters (whew, that was convoluted!).
So, since most commenters also have blogs, and I do get a link to their profile with the comment, I go to their blog and comment on it.
I also rarely read comments on other blogs… If there’s any controversy it can get ugly… I don’t do ugly.
Good luck with the ASL. Once upon a time I worked in the same building with a deaf theater company. I got to know a few of the people there… and so learned some of their language so as to communicate better. I never got very good, you really have to *use* a language to get comfortable, but it was enough to be friendly and chat.
Interesting experiment!
Unanticipated side effect of this experiment – I am feeling anxious about not responding to comment emails. 😀
Sarah R – Aw, thanks! I know what you mean. I have a carefully hoarded email or two from the Yarn Harlot responding to a comment I left. It was very exciting! Also, setting up one’s blogger profile properly to allow email responses to comments is not intuitive.
Knitnana – No idea about teaching baby signs to a child with PDD…
Sydney – I can’t see myself subscribing to a lot of comment threads for the same reason. It is nice to know we aren’t alone, isn’t it?!
Limedragon – That’s a good point about following up in another post.